Messenger Audio 3.2

(unintelligible)

Yes.

Yeah, it's very clear in the Quran that when they ate from the tree, their bodies became visible to them.

But the angels could see, of course, they have to see souls' dimension. And then, they are God's helpers there.

They are supposed to be, have access to any dimension.

Other questions?

(unintelligible) I think we're going a little bit too fast.

This idea of, of names, maybe we should go and spend some more time on it.

It's basically we compare it with the, we're not studying the Bible of the Jews and Christians.

But I think if, if we go deeper, we might not come to (unintelligible)

For example, one difference is this.

In the Bible of the Jews and Christians, it does not say that God taught Adam.

(unintelligible)

It is Adam (unintelligible) on his own accord, began to give names to the animals and the plants.

So, this is already one difference.

In Quran, Allah teaches Adam names, whatever these names are.

And in the Bible of the Jews, Adam (unintelligible)

There's no suggestion that Allah teaches Adam.

It's Adam who goes to the garden, then he starts to name the things that God created.

I think this is very important.

Because the way Moses Maimonides, who is the greatest Jewish philosopher, describes how

Adam is, is naming animals and plants.

You would think that Adam was a professor of botany and zoology.

And I don't think that Allah would go on.

There are bigger things, so, for Him to worry about.

So, many Muslims in their Tafsir, guided by the readings of the Jewish Bible,

and to demonstrate to other Muslims that they know something else beyond Quran, began to teach us

that what Allah taught Adam were the names of animals and plants.

So, this time it's Allah who becomes the professor of botany and zoology.

Now, it seems there is something in the names which the angels do not know, or maybe cannot know.

But they can know some.

Now, this is very interesting.

There have been many interpretations about this, and which (unintelligible) kind, tolerance and indulgence.

There is a standard teaching among some Sufi writers, that these names refer to the names of Allah.

Now, first of all, I think among the Arabs, knowing a name is more than knowing a name, like Caesar. No.

(unintelligible) say "name refers to more than the name of someone, it refers to knowledge."

This I accept. You mentioned it.

And most people who have made commentary will agree that these names refer to knowledge.

Some say knowledge for abstraction, that is, is the intelligence of man.

He can go from the concrete to the abstract.

He can go and rationalize or rationaliser, in other words, he can know logic.

But, I am very much inclined to accept the hints of the Sufis, when they say that Allah

taught Adam the names of His qualities.

Now, this is knowledge of the highest form, and the angels cannot know all. For example,

Allah, one of the names of Allah is He's One who gives death.

Now, angels it seems don't know what is death.

(unintelligible) what?

Death.

Oh.

Allah Huwa Al-Mumit.

But Adam can understand eventually the meaning of death.

Another thing.

An angel, whose philosophers are right, cannot understand the meaning of, of patience or the care of children, you know.

Because they don't have children.

So, when Allah tells us, be patient, we understand that.

If Allah helps us, we understand Allah if He tells us to be patient.

This is a quality which Allah helps us develop.

But the angels cannot have this.

In other words, the angels belonging to another dimension, and not having a physical body like us,

cannot exemplify some of the virtues which Allah already wants us to, to, to demonstrate.

And I think, many of these names of Allah, like for example, Musawwir (مصور), and also,

Allah is the Muhyi (مُحْىِ). He gives life.

In some ways we do give life (unintelligible).

When we have children, we are in some ways creating, naturally to the help of Allah,

we're creating life.

And I do not think angels understand that.

They cannot know this thing.

Be careful now, you don't wanna make them angry.

No, because I cannot see. Dr. Khalifa: They're watch, they are watching you now.

(unintelligible) I cannot, can't control with my eye. So,...

(unintelligible)

Maybe I brought out of my...

Now, watch what you say about the angels, because they, you don't wanna make them angry.

No. No. But,

And so, the way I look at it is that, I agree that these names refer to knowledge,

and I would just like to submit for your thinking, for you to develop on your own, or reject, that

maybe these names is a special form of knowledge, they refer to those special qualities of Allah

which He gave us the ability to exercise when He, as (unintelligible) mentioned,

gave part of Himself to us as a soul.

He breathed unto us something of His Spirit, that is our soul.

And this gives us the capacity to understand certain things, and the angels can never know this.

It seems to me therefore that in our test in life, you need a body

and you need the combination of this body with part of ourselves which it is Allah's to exercise certain things

in order to arrive at certain knowledge and this is what Allah had given us and that's why He has sent us to a material world

because only we can interact in this material world with our bodies

and exemplify certain potentialities and the angels

cannot (unintelligible) Dr. Khalifa: Oh, yes. Yeah, they can.

They can?

They carried the (unintelligible) palace of the queen of Sheba from, from

They are very physical. They can Dean Mahmoud: But, yeah.

I mean, they are actually, they started (unintelligible).

Well, I don't say everything but some they cannot, they cannot, for example

Yeah, see, what I'm saying is they are very physical. They're not,

People, a lot of people think of angels as spirits who will go through this world. They can't, they can't tear it down

But they are very physical. Dean Mahmoud: No, I agree with you. They're forces. They can do.

But I cannot imagine an angel having a toothache and telling Allah

"Allah strengthen me with my patience to tolerate this toothache." This is what I mean.

Yeah. No. Deam Mahmoud: No.

Not all, because the idea here is that angels seem to know certain things. Dr. Khalifa: The only, the only problem was

The only problem with that secret names of Allah

is that the next verse says that God showed these things to the angels and said

[2:31] ... "Tell Me the names of these ...

So, they are objects. They're the names of objects,

rather than just names of (unintelligible).

Yeah, but verse 32 suggests that the angels... Dr. Khalifa: But it's a very good,

No, no. Dr. Khalifa: It's a very good (unintelligible)

Angels know some of the names in 32.

They say we have no knowledge except what You already have taught us.

So, angels know.

Yeah, but what I'm saying is God showed the angels, Dean Mahmoud: But not all.

showed the angels something, objects Dean Mahmoud: Yeah.

And said

[2:31] ... "Give Me the names of these, ...

So, and says,

[2:31] ... presented them to the angels, ...

and asked them

[2:31] ... "Give Me the names of these, ...

So, there is something being presented and the angels asked to give them the names of these.

Yeah, but the angels do not seem to know.

Right, they didn't. A woman: (unintelligible)

They didn't know.

Is there a way of Arabic in showing the difference between (unintelligible) and for the creatures, or people, or animals?

These.

No it's, no, it does just says these, objects. Dean Mahmoud: (unintelligible) These.

It could be qualities.

How would God show it? A woman: (unintelligible)

How do you show us quality? A woman: (unintelligible)

How can you show clemency?

Yes, you cannot see clemency, but you can see the thread or material of things.

No, but you cannot present clemency to someone and say, what is this?

For, for example on a hot day, we need rains.

This is something physical but we can say it is an expression of the quality of Allah of mercy.

It's not the quality itself. Dr. Khalifa: Or, or, or punishment.

Or punishment the catch will be. Because Allah also one of His names, He punishes.

He gives a (unintelligible)

Anyhow this is that, a form of knowledge for, for reflection.

Very good point.

But I don't want to go deeper or insist on it. It's just for some who would like to...

It's really, it's really very, very simple.

They're straight forward verses.

And these are very good points. The names can be anything.

Let's go back to Inga because (unintelligible) we can't forget the other two teachers.

Ok. 35

[2:35] ... Adam, live with your wife in Paradise, and eat generously, but do not approach the tree, ...

He's just setting the scene for what He knows is going to happen.

The tree represents God's laws.

(unintelligible)

And man,

cause the devil duped them on this, causing their eviction.

[2:36] ... "Go down as enemies to each other. ...

I don't know if this "each other" refers to the devil and mankind, or if it means, Adam, man and woman.

All of them.

All of them. Inga: All of them. All three.

(unintelligible) through that.

And then, it's important that

[2:36] ... On Earth will be your habitation and your sustenance for awhile."

He's not condemning them there forever.

And Adam received God's words.

[2:37] ... received from his Lord words, whereby He redeemed him. ...

So, I assume that this happened a period of time. Adam was

(unintelligible)

No, it was right there. Because God tell him, told him that this offense that you did is forgiven.

Period.

Because the ultimate objective was to send Adam and all his descendants to earth

in order to show Satan and the angels that this creature will worship God without, without ever seeing Him.

That's the second objective of our creation.

But so, as far as we're concerned, we are here to worship God,

to discover that God is the only Master.

which is really what verse 38 (unintelligible)

Right.

[2:38] We said, "Go down therefrom, all of you. And when guidance comes to you from Me, those who follow My guidance will have no fear, nor will they grieve.

Except although may have kind of (unintelligible) on earth.

When after that even that just left will have the opportunity.

(unintelligible) to some degree.

(unintelligible)

Let's go back to God.

[2:39] "As for those who disbelieve and reject our revelations, they have deserved Hell, and they abide there forever."

There was a note here about "our revelations."

That is frequently in a plural.

This is where it indicates participation of angels in God's will.

It is (unintelligible)

For example, God's revelations to us were brought down by...